The Power of Forgiveness and Letting Go

I had an enlightening talk with Bree about the importance of forgiveness in healing and moving forward. We discussed the freedom that comes with forgiving those who have hurt you, even if they can’t reciprocate. Bree shared her journey with an abusive mom and how becoming a parent herself opened the door to forgiveness. We explored how forgiveness is an ongoing process, not a one-time event.

Episode Highlights:

[02:14] The weight lifted after forgiving an abusive mom.

[05:20] Did her mom understand the damage she caused?

[06:16] Bree’s mom's excuses for her behavior.

[07:22] Reaching out to my absentee dad for forgiveness.

[08:30] Getting sent away after acting out as a teen.

[10:26] Why do the hurt ones extend forgiveness?

[12:39] Acting out for attention from Bree’s dad.

[14:42] Barely finishing high school amidst the chaos.

[16:02] Moving to Colorado with Bree’s new husband.

[18:30] Having a colicky newborn with no support system.

[20:17] Finding jobs quickly out of necessity.

[22:35] Struggling mentally amidst becoming a new mom.

[24:00] The value of going through hard times together.

[25:39] Recognizing the cycle repeating.

[27:10] The need for continuous forgiveness in marriage.

[29:39] Wanting kids to know the good in their Grandma.

[33:08] Forgiveness is an ongoing process, not one-time event.

[35:12] Be patient in your own forgiveness journey.

[37:40] Still fighting despite the challenges.

[49:21] Take it easy on yourself through the forgiveness process.

If this episode resonated with you, please rate, follow, share, and leave a review. Your support helps more people find this podcast and know they're not alone. Until next time!

Transcript

Nick: 0:05

We unintentionally gave up. Over time we we let ourselves down. We didn't teach or respect the struggle. Our value disappeared over time replaced with masks disguised as truth. I mean, our words became empty and our presence became obsolete. Now we face our biggest struggle, and it's time to rip the masks off. More than ever, it's time to return to our true selves. Our real identity. It's time to be fucking offensive. Well, hello and welcome.

Nancy: 0:48

Welcome back.

Nick: 0:50

Welcome back. Okay, so today the funniest thing is we were just doing like some pre talk before we have our before we have our guest on Well Wait, I'll let her share the story with you because it's hilarious. We're talking about like, well, here this is Bree. Hello, Bree. How are you?

Nancy: 1:08

Welcome Bree.

Nick: 1:10

Wait, isn't Bree a cheese?

Bree: 1:12

It is really no one like that. With cheese.

Nick: 1:18

Wait, are you soft? And squishy? Or? Oh my god, no. Anyway. So you guys know sort of how my relationship with my mom. We spoke a bit about that. And obviously, as episodes go on, we're going to talk more about it. But one of the big things that a lot of people had got out of that episode. And of course, myself as well was the act of forgiveness. Yes. And I think that is huge. And there's a lot of people who just don't realize the freedom that comes with forgiveness. It again, Nancy, you always say it right? You don't necessarily forget? No, it's unfortunate. No, I can't forget. Sorry, sticks with us. But it is something that we can do. And we can move forward. And whatever your situation is, it may be different. But for me, I still see my mom, I still talk with her. Which

Nancy: 2:14

everyone found interesting because of all the shit that went on. Yes, kind of. Yeah.

Nick: 2:19

You know, Bree sort of was in the same situation. And so I thought that her story was pretty cool that she'd come on here and share her story with us. However, we found that we had a little bit of a story that was interesting, even before that. She was sharing with us how her dogs should all over the house. Cleaning up the squirts, and all over the bathroom. Oh my God, that's disgusting. Like, you know, right. So this is real shit. Right? This is dropping off. And then, so today, we get on here. And we're just doing like a little pre cast. And all of a sudden she's like, oh, yeah, by the way, my daughter decided to come in last night and piss all over my bed and all over me. And I'm like, What is going? Oh, man. Yeah, like a real person, a real mom raising two daughters. There you go piss all over the place. The real, the real shit. So give us a little background tell us because I know you've had some relationships where you've had to find yourself. And well, I think really, you started listening to our podcast. And you were you were one that was like, I just, that's just so interesting. And I just, you know, can't understand. And so how did it happen here for you? Because you you've gone through some shit yourself. So

Bree: 3:42

yeah, you got? Yeah. Well, and I think I could relate to you so much. It's your story. Minus been in the church culture? Yeah. I guess just the whole forgiveness aspects kind of really hit me a little after my first daughter was born. So about seven years ago, it was mostly towards my mom. And it became more of like a freeing thing for me because I had so much resentment built up, and so much hurt. But as soon as I kind of forgave her, it was just like this big weight was lifted off. Yeah. And I also, I think the redeeming quality is specifically with my mom was being grandparents. And I saw that and I just chose to, obviously set boundaries. And you know, you want your kids from seeing kind of the chaos. And also, you know, kind of backtracking like, my mom has also been really humbled. I feel like the past 10 years and she's kind of realized that she she needed forgiveness like we all do, because we all we all fuck up, you know, and she she had asked for My forgiveness and I accepted that to me that that shouted that this person I want in my life. People that don't ask for forgiveness and people that just think they don't. Yeah, that they don't need forgiveness I choose not to have in my life, because I'm like, What's the point? You know? Yeah.

Nick: 5:21

So let me ask a question about for the forgiveness too because especially people so when we're talking in general about someone, maybe who's done something wrong to us, obviously, there are certain times when did you have a conversation with your mom, and she understood that there was something that happened that was wrong, because, you know, sometimes people don't realize even that they've done something wrong.

Nancy: 5:44

It's really it wasn't a church thing for you. Right? It was more? It was,

Bree: 5:48

I mean, it was kind of what Nick went through to with the physical and most mostly verbal abuse growing up, okay. Specifically with my mom. I feel like she didn't really take it seriously, though, until I had my own child. And I don't know if maybe that was a wake up call for her.

Nancy: 6:09

When you say she didn't take it seriously. Do you mean she didn't know it? Did she didn't realize it?

Bree: 6:16

Well, it was always like an excuse. It was always like, Well, I was a single parent trying to raise mostly she singled out my older sister and I to hormonal teenage daughters. And, you know, that's why I did what I did. So it was very frustrating in my early 20s, especially, because I would try and have these conversations with her. But it was always like an excuse. Whereas now I feel like she she's flat out. Like, she's asked for forgiveness from me from God, even with my older sister, whereas my biological dad, he, I mean, he's never asked for forgiveness. And he, I did to him. I actually reached out to him in my early 20s, as well, just kind of saying, hey, sorry, for all the crap I did when I was a teenager, like, you know, trying to form some sort of relationship. And quickly kind of got denied. And, you know, there was no like, accountability for him and his adult actions. And so yeah, the whole thing was just

Nick: 7:22

how do you feel? Do you feel like let's I want to get a little bit more into like, sort of, you know, we can go as deep as you want. But when you had asked your your biological dad for forgiveness when when you say biological that so were your parents were obviously divorced when you were younger?

Bree: 7:39

No, no, they actually didn't get divorced until I was like middle of sixth grade. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So he was in our lights for a good amount of years, which actually kind of sucks more. Because, you know, when I was, I was 15. My sophomore year, my mom sent me to go live with my biological dad and his wife, and his adopted, like three step sons. So me and my sister, were over there. And we did some things that no, we were 15 and 17 years old, and we just, we've messed up pretty bad. And he sent us back to my mom's and after that, we didn't really hear much from him. He didn't really want much to do with us and kind of traded out his three daughters for three stuff funds.

Nick: 8:30

Interesting. So okay,

Nancy: 8:34

man, what the hell did you do? That was?

Bree: 8:39

I mean, I didn't commit murder. I didn't steal from Jesus. Okay,

Nancy: 8:45

I mean, were you in jail every now or? Not? The reason I ask is because I mean, our own son, you know what I mean, all the shit. Yeah. Well,

Nick: 8:58

I think I think what I'd like to know, because I'm really, obviously we're stuck on this forgiveness thing. But it's funny that you say you ask forgiveness from your biological dad, who in most cases the parents have, or at least have to admit that they have something to do with the way that their kids act.

Bree: 9:19

Not always now my biological dad. He was very, yeah,

Nick: 9:23

that's what I'm saying. He's like, No, that's where I find this whole forgiveness thing. Interesting. Because and I'm saying this because we've talked right and we've talked that you sort of feel like you can relate with me and it's almost like, I find it really interesting that that the people I II me you, you know, it's almost like we're the ones who were like the whip dog, right? But yet we're the ones going back and trying to seek forgiveness from people who fucking actually, you know, well, we're asking forgiveness from them, but why are we asking for forgiveness? I know that I mean that like forgiveness is a good thing. Don't get me wrong, but I find it interesting that people like us are the ones who were fucking kicked down. But yet, we're the ones who feel like we should ask for forgiveness, like we actually did something wrong. And I'm not saying that, you know, you feel like you did something wrong. Right? Okay, so you did right. You were your kids, you fuck up whatever that is. We don't have to get into with as long as we know you didn't kill someone.

Nancy: 10:27

This is true. This is true. We're good. I

Nick: 10:29

mean, even if you did no. Society or something? I don't know. But I'm just here, right? No, wait a second. No, we're not talking to Bree. Like, I'm just saying, like, I find this interesting, because I think it's awesome that your mom, you know, realize that when you had you know, your first daughter that and we don't say names here, generally because we try to protect anybody who we don't need to. When when you when you hit I think it's awesome for me to hear that. It's obvious she wanted to be in your lives. Yeah. Right. Because not not just be in your lives, but really be in your lives. Because to say, Man, I fucked up and I really need forgiveness for this is huge. I mean, my mom, you say that she would always make excuses. And bla bla bla. I mean, it's your mom. I mean, I'm not pointing out fingers here. But I'm saying no. I mean, they make excuses for not being the best parent and oh, what you didn't realize that? You know, my mom's biggest thing was, you know, you know, you were you kids weren't born with a manual. I always was like, Bitch, like, seriously, you? Of course, were not born with a man with a motherly instincts.

Bree: 11:47

Well, not everybody has a mother. Yeah. And for my mom, I think it was mostly pointing the finger, it was always at someone else. You know, whether it's us, the divorce, whatever it may be, but there is no excuse. I mean, this woman would chase me around with a knife. You know, like, I get you, you don't do things like that, and then expect your kids to respect you. And I think that for the forgiveness aspect of it. It was more so for me, I think for me, and for my, my daughters, too, is like, I don't want to rob them out of having a relationship with their grandparents, who is a completely different person. She's not the parent that I grew up with. And I want them to know her. And vice versa. And yeah, it was more just like green for me. Yeah.

Nick: 12:40

Can I ask what? I'm gonna go back to this thing real quick with you and your sister had to go live with your dad. And again, we don't have to go deep in here. But what happened there? Why weren't you able to or what happened with that situation where you guys had to go live with him.

Bree: 12:54

So my older sister, she was like, she was a golden child. Like she got straight A's. She was a great student. Great kid. I was more of the you know, partier. I didn't listen to authority type person. So what does she relates to? You know, my, my mom couldn't take. I don't think me and then I think she kind of clumped my older sister with me too. Because she, you know, she was she was more emotional. I mean, a normal teenage girl though, right? Like, it wasn't anything crazy. So y'all are crazy. Yeah. So she's like, You guys need your dad. Kind of like, you know. Yeah. So we went to us we go for 233 months. Yes. And again, it was just me that was just like, you know, screw up after screw up after screw up. Were

Nick: 13:49

you acting out? I mean, obviously, were you angry?

Bree: 13:53

Everything told no, I don't think so much anger. I think I just wanted some sort of attention. Whether it was good or bad. I think I wanted that from my biological dad. And, you know, with being at my mom's she kind of centered her whole her whole life at this point on my younger sister and her softball and, and that's why I don't understand like the abuse towards my older sister and I brought it up to her numerous times. And like she was a great candidate. You know, like any even if she wasn't even if she was growing up, like I was like, no, no, no solid excuse. You know, for like, what you said to us what you did to us. But here I am. You know, forgiving you.

Nancy: 14:43

So you. You went through this? You still went to school though, right? You finish school?

Unknown: 14:50

Barely. But yes.

Nancy: 14:52

I mean, what believe me. Yes, I know. My son was the same way. Barely, but yes. Did

Unknown: 14:57

what you did, yeah.

Nick: 14:58

You were basically beat Down, Right? I mean, it's obvious that you were sort of beat down, right? But this is just relates completely to our story, right? Specifically to mind. But then you do that. But then you, you finish school you get out of school, you wind up getting married, you find this guy, nobody gives you the time of day with him. You wind up putting yourself through fucking school, getting pregnant with one then getting pregnant with like, there is a lot.

Nancy: 15:32

Like if something were to happen to me like that, like, why would I want to even continue? Or why would I want to bring kids into the world? Or why would I want to? Like What gave you that? You know what I mean? Like? Yeah, so

Bree: 15:44

with our with our oldest, she was complete, just like surprise when I were dating for three months. And we've just moved to Colorado. And we found out we were pregnant.

Nick: 15:59

So when did you meet? When did you meet your husband? How old were you when you met?

Bree: 16:02

I met my husband. When I was 23. Oh, I didn't know it was that late? Well, we

Nick: 16:13

we were 19 Oh, no,

Nancy: 16:14

I just for some reason. I thought you guys were in high school

Bree: 16:18

when you met you. Yeah, we knew of each other. It was really fun. Oh, brother.

Nick: 16:24

I just was funny that that

Bree: 16:26

we always knew of each other. Okay. And my best friend had the biggest crush on them. I would write her name and his last name on the wall. So I knew of him. Yeah, I knew of him. But we

Nick: 16:40

were never like, yeah, that's my man. I'm gonna marry that. No, you right, like, no. My point is, is that it's just the it's the weirdest way life fucking works. You know? Yeah. You know, okay, you knew of them. And you were you. You didn't you weren't like, oh my god, I can marry that boy someday. No, no, you're just like, yeah, that's what it is. All right.

Nancy: 17:03

So you guys live in Colorado, you find out that you're pregnant. Why do you go to Colorado? Yeah. Why Colorado? He

Bree: 17:08

wanted to move Colorado. And I never been. And I hated Illinois. At that point. I was very like, I was just Yeah.

Nick: 17:18

Yeah. doesn't trust me. Okay, yeah.

Bree: 17:21

I was just kind of like itching for change, too. And I was just like, Okay, let's do it. So we drove out there, we stuffed my old Buick with a bunch of mostly my stuff. And he had literally just a bag I think we lived with. And then we had to find our own place. And it just worked out, you know. And then once we got to our own place, I found out I took a pregnancy test. And I found out I was pregnant. And I'm like, This can't be right. Like, obviously, like, you know how babies come to life. But I'm just like, No, no,

Nick: 17:56

what how?

Bree: 18:01

I was so naive. I could not believe it. I was just like, Oh my god. Just so

Nick: 18:06

you guys know, out there. Like we're talking and we see each other right, but just audio her faces is read as a fucking. She's like holding your head like, Oh,

Nancy: 18:18

this is talking. But even I mean, even finding out that you're pregnant, you still decided to have the child. You know, like, Yeah, you don't I mean, you were still gonna go through it. Was

Nick: 18:31

it? Was it so you were surprised? Obviously, Nancy was surprised, right? Everybody knows our story. Seven months fucking pregnant. We had no clue. And then all of a sudden, bam. But she wasn't even supposed to have kids. So it was even crazier. But to decide to you're you're on Colorado, it's all new. You have nobody out there, right? I mean, what did you guys have? Did you guys have anybody to lean on? And were you just sort of just on your own completely? Or what? How was that?

Bree: 18:55

We were mostly on our own. We had people here and there that was kind of checking on us. But we, I mean, we did everything on our own. For the most part. Yeah. And especially, you know, after we had my first she had really bad college. And I was not prepared for I was prepared for like, some sleepless nights, you know, here and there. But this is like, up until seven months old, not continuous. Oh, I like no babysitter, like, no one to come step in like, be like, Hey, let's let us help you with this little bundle of joy, you know, and she was such a cute baby. And she was she was a sweet baby, but she just had so much like palate, you know? Yeah.

Nick: 19:43

And it is something because Nancy and I talked about, you know, we got married obviously when we were 19 and 20. And we talked about doing it on our own as well. And the funny thing is, is I talked about this a little bit and a few outlets that I have did I do on my Don't but you know your mindset of you know, when when when the lights are off, and it's the middle of the night you're lost in your mind. Right? It is you it is you and you are by yourself. Because we were you guys working at that point did you guys find jobs? Like how

Bree: 20:18

jobs pretty quickly? My husband's in the landscaping industry fairly quickly. I follow him fairly quickly to actually lied and told them I was I lived in Colorado, they had no idea like the same. I think a day after we drove out to Colorado. I had an interview with the next day. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so worked out like pretty organically. Well, that worked out. Yeah. And I worked all up until I gave birth. And then I stayed with my oldest for the first year. And then from then on, I did like night jobs and stuff and doing school at the same time. And you made it happen. We made it happen. Yeah. Which is so ironic, right? When you think about, well, that's your parents, saying

Nick: 21:02

like, that was a huge move, you go from not even not only making a move, but making a move to a place that you have no fucking clue. You don't know anything about having to deal with then being pregnant, and then having to deal with working because you both had to work, right? Because you had to support and then having to deal with all the emotion and everything that goes through that or with that, especially after you had your first one. Right. So then there's there's a bunch involved in that. And I think for us, you know, actually wanting this speak also with you in putting your story out there is that Nancy, and I talk all the time about just fighting and just crawling and scraping and just doing what you have to do. And again, that's not all physical. No, you know, the biggest thing for me, and this is where we really learned especially when things happened with us a couple years ago with with our son is that your mind is fragile, and you may be all the fighter you think you are. And when something happens, that's very overwhelming, you may not be able to deal with that. And just being alone in your mind can really be a fucked up thing. So, you know, I congratulate you guys, props, man, especially, you know, being in such a situation where you find yourself sort of alone. And yeah, there's always outside help. That helps. And I get that we've, yeah, we had a little bit of that as well. But when push comes to shove, you guys fucking kicked ass and did what you had to do. And

Bree: 22:35

then in between, like I was, I was struggling with like, my own mental health, like I Yeah. With my first especially, and a little bit before I had my second as well, but not nearly as bad. But so I mean, layer that on top of getting to know this person too. Because I mean, my husband and I, we were dating three months, and then found out we were pregnant. So we're still getting to know each other too. And we're sure, you know, it wasn't a question for him. But I was going back and forth. And like, I don't know, he had a lot of we all do. I mean, I had to do too. But there are some specific things with him that were just red flags. And I'm like, I'm not sure if I want to continue this, if that's how I'm going to be. And by God's grace, that's, that's he's grown. And we've changed and we've gotten, we've gotten help to, you know, we've gone to seek counseling we've talked to like him, and I've talked a lot more to and I think that's a huge thing. And we've experienced like it all pretty much from having no money, or having, you know, not a lot of family out there. Just doing everything ourselves, has made us a lot stronger as a family unit than I think if we were to have a bunch of healthy hands are a bunch of money, whatever, like we've been through it. Yeah.

Nick: 24:00

I find, I find it whoa,

Nancy: 24:04

whoa, son, that he didn't go through it. And you know,

Nick: 24:10

if she didn't go through it, right, that it would have been an A and that's exactly what our son is saying. Right needs to go through it and to and that's where we're respecting, even talking with you guys. And I say you guys, I say millennials and younger people who are in relationships, and who are really trying their hardest to fucking find their way in this world and in the relationship and having to deal with each other and having that. And that's why I find that it's it's so refreshing, though, what you just said to me is that, you know, you said that, that your your husband had some issues on his own. But you also then went back and said that you you guys both realized that there was room for change. And it wasn't just one or the other. You know what I mean that you You guys work together as a team to build that.

Bree: 25:03

And it's, it's interesting too, because, you know, my mom and I have talked about this before, it's like, history sometimes does repeat itself without even trying. My parents were the same ages as my husband and I, when they first have my oldest, or their oldest, sorry, my oldest sister, they moved out San Diego, California, within a couple months of them being together, you know, and I was alone. I didn't even know half of that either. Until my mom brought it up. And I'm like, yeah, that is really. That's weird. Weird. Yeah. But

Nancy: 25:39

that's what I'm saying. Even our parents, you know, what they went through? And, you know, we went through our own stuff, and the difference, and the way we handled it, yeah, it just, it blows my mind. Because I know, we handled it different when we had our child.

Nick: 25:54

Yeah, completely. And then I know that he's handling it even different way than than we. And I think we all have a little bit of that, that drive to sort of break the cycle of something, right? I mean, we we all have a little bit of trauma that we've you know, gone through that we want that we don't want our kids to go through. See for us, we obviously didn't want our kid to go through it. But we we literally wanted to completely change everything, right? That's not necessarily a good thing. Good thing as well. I mean, there has to be balanced. That's another thing that we talk about is balance. And I love like I said, I love getting you guys on here and talking about this, because just listening to you and talking about you and your husband and how it was and we find that there's so much in common with that. And that's just being human beings. We all go through a lot of the same shin. And I don't think we realize that and, you know, it gives us a chance to really also, okay, we've been married 34 years big deal. And I'm not saying be like people say, Oh, that's a big deal. Okay, it is. But what I mean by that is we're just doing our best every day as well.

Nancy: 27:07

Yeah, continuously learning stuff. So and

Bree: 27:11

I think forgiving each other. You know, my husband like we've had to, over and over again just like, forgive each other. And that's that's a hard pill to swallow. Because it's like you you want to bring up X y&z from the past, but like, what's that gonna? What's that gonna? Huge? Yeah,

Nancy: 27:30

that is huge. So that, can you that is a big thing, especially as you said, with your mom, yeah, 10 years ago, and how you did that. That's huge. That's I don't Well,

Nick: 27:41

and even we can get away from that for a minute. And just just forgiveness alone, right? It doesn't even have to be your mom. That's a great story. Don't get me wrong, that moment was awesome. And it's awesome that your your daughters are able to know their grandma, and that you that your mom is and was willing to make that change. But that goes that just goes throughout any relationship we have, when you just said, to just let things go that are in the past, I'm not talking about. So I'll tell you just straight up. My dad is the kind of guy that's like, just just forget about it. You know, like, when we were growing up? My dad would be like, Ah, I can't believe you're thinking about that. That's a big deal. And all he wants to do is sweep things under the rug. Yeah,

Nancy: 28:29

that's what I always say. Just sweep it under the rug. Okay, Dad, that's

Nick: 28:33

not necessarily the right way to do it. That's not what I'm talking about, either. I think you have to have healthy conversations. Would you agree? Oh,

Bree: 28:42

100%. Yeah, yeah. I mean, come to like forgiveness. I mean, there's, there's been a couple individuals even this past year that like, I've had to forgive, and it is a process. And that doesn't always mean having them back in your life either. And yeah, I think that's where like, at least with my mom, my sisters, and I differ is one of them just does not talk to her. And I have that she has passed on to and we each had our own trauma from this person. And I think the most freeing thing for me was forgiving, not forgetting, like you're just saying but forgiving. And also kind of putting myself in her shoes. And I do I see good qualities in my mom. And those are the qualities that I try and bring into my my own relationship with my daughters. Oh, wow.

Nick: 29:40

I just think it's awesome that and we've talked about this as well, like we've talked a lot about this, but I think it's awesome to have individuals like you on the show to actually reiterate the stuff is that we can we as individuals have the choice, and I would say the obligation at some point. to take those good things, we don't necessarily forget the bad things, but we forgive, but we take those good things. And those are good things that we can pass on to our kids. And then they can take what they want there. Let me tell you, your daughters are gonna think you're a fucking pitch as well. You know what I mean? We're not perfect, right? And that's the whole thing about being human

Nancy: 30:24

is that we're not perfect. You're not always going to like everything everyone does. You know, my

Nick: 30:28

mom used to say, when kids were born with manual, Robbie said that now used to be like, God didn't stop making excuses. But the reality is, that's the same exact thing about what I just said, Right? We're not perfect, we can take what's really good. And we can pass that along. And I think that would be suffice enough to break the cycle. You know what I mean? And I think what we don't do, and this is a really big point that I bring to a lot of the guests on the show, because most of us are broken. And most of us have been through something, whatever it is, whatever your trauma is, you could be you could have been born with a gold spoon in your mouth, and still have fucking trauma. There's there's that you're not exempt. Just because you were raised in a great family from not having trauma,

Nancy: 31:12

what is a great family feud.

Nick: 31:14

But I think the biggest thing about it is that we take from that, and we learn from that. And we're actually able to pass on the good things from that. Because I could say, in the time that I remember as a child, oh, my whole childhood was fucked up. Well, the good that came out of it, is that I had to be a fighter. So that's why I would never go back. Like I that's what created the fighter in me. And that's what sounds like the same thing with you. Right? I mean, that that's where that

Bree: 31:49

lightly at all and I don't think my husband does either. But especially just like, I mean, and seeing the difference, even like my biological dad was a decent person, I would say up until he just deserted us. But I see more of the negative qualities in him only because he was a coward. He left his family. He did not ask for forgiveness. He knows he has grandchildren hasn't reached out to my older sister and I like I would rather be like my mom, you know who's now humbled yet still deals with her own baggage, her own substance abuse, and she's not perfect. Our relationship is not by any means perfect still, but she asks for forgiveness continuous not continuously, but when we get it. And that, I don't know that to me. I'm just like, I'd rather be like that then egotistical human that doesn't believe they need any forgiveness. Well,

Nick: 32:48

it's, it's being humble. Being able to say, Man, I fucked up. And you know what, that's what this whole podcast is about, is about authenticity. We all fuck up. Jesus, man, are you serious? Like we all are, at some point a piece of shit. Like, we all need forgiveness. And you know, and

Nancy: 33:09

it's like you said it's continuous forgiveness to there's always stuff that happens throughout the days or throughout, you know, whatever you're going through. And I think

Bree: 33:17

if you can talk about it too at that person, that's huge. And sometimes you're not always ready to talk right away. And that's fine, too. But I think talking about it, you know, at least verbalizing like, why you're hurt, why? That person needs to ask for forgiveness. I think that's a huge part of this whole thing, too. Yeah.

Nick: 33:38

And I want to say that I think part of forgiveness, though, is to realize that, you know, you're absolutely right, somebody might not be able to talk about it. But I also want to say that just because the other party may not be ready to talk about it that has no should have no reflection on who we are. And I think for myself, I always took that personally, like, oh my god, they don't want to talk to me, you know, and I'm sitting here trying to, you know, ask for forgiveness. And you know, what a bunch of assholes and bla bla in the bottom line is, we need to worry about ourselves first. You know, I've learned that I can ask anybody for forgiveness, or I can forgive anybody. But if I don't have a clear mindset, about who I am and where my goals are, and what I want to do, none of that's gonna matter. Because a lot of forgiveness, I think, or asking for forgiveness is sort of a way of sweeping things under the rug, in a sense, where, okay, that's over, right. It's, I got forgiveness, and it's over. And that's the conclusion and whatever. And I used to be a conclusion guy like I, I want to know, you know, and I think asking for forgiveness, like I said, is a bit of a form of sweeping under the rug. But once you work on yourself, and you understand what forgiveness truly is, and what really were the things that led up to either giving or, or asking for forgiveness or expecting it. Once your mind is clear with that, then you like you said, it may not be done right away and it's just such such a freedom. Yes. Get your mind straight with it.

Bree: 35:13

Yeah. And it's also like, in my journey at least I've I realize it's not like a snap of the fingers thing, like I used to always think it was. It's like a process like it's a process. Yeah, like with my parents like, and I forgiven my biological dad, but not, I guess, you know, they'll be like, past memories they'll think about that aren't always the most pleasant. And I'm like, those emotions come in, you know, because we're human, and we have those emotions. And then I'll have to step back and either pray or I'll have to talk about with a friend or, you know, counselor, whoever my husband, and, you know, and then kind of start all over the next day. Like, it's just, it's really a process. Yeah,

Nancy: 36:02

I really is. I totally get that. Because of our son. I mean, when we see him, there's certain things that I mean, I'll come to you and be like, bawling like what, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever. He's like, okay, just, you know, like, just relax. It's

Nick: 36:18

good through let's,

Nancy: 36:20

you know, total process at it. And it does these things. Like, I don't know, what's the word to use, you know, but it kind of, it's like a flashback, like something just like, hits you and it's like, holy shit, like, and you just want a burst out. And, you know, it takes everything in me to just be like, just chill, like, relax. You know, like you said, Take You know, I have to take a step back. Sometimes I'll walk away because I don't want to show the facial Nancy is very facial person can't keep you know, let's face

Bree: 36:56

it resting bitchface you know, the same thing. So we're, you know,

Nancy: 36:59

you don't I mean, like it's so it's so I totally understand that. Totally manual process.

Nick: 37:04

So forgiveness is awesome. All that's good. So you know, we can get really caught up deep in it. Yeah, it gets deep. And you know, some of it can get a little dark and sad. But some of it's awesome. But here's the cool thing. So through all of this, and before we end here, so yeah, you went through all that. Blah, blah, blah. But dude, you wind up getting married. You guys are in Colorado. You have your second daughter, you guys. Wind up. husband at home. I finally just bought. You have like a little business outside. You went back to school. You're like, Dude, you guys are fucking kicking it.

Bree: 37:41

Yeah. She's like, Yeah, yeah, I are not perfect. No. Who cares? Yeah, it didn't stop. You didn't that we quit. I knew as soon as I married this person to you know, we were kind of, I think after my daughter was born, like we both realized like, This is it for us. But the marriage just being finalized before my second daughter was born just kind of added, added that seal like we're in it together for life. Till death do us part. Like, don't take that lightly. So for us, yeah, I mean, we will continue to fight to kind of what you're saying that because like we are, we're fighters in our own way. And yeah, especially when it comes to my daughter's to like I had noticed complete Mama Bear mode, just like Yeah, kinda. Yeah. Isn't it crazy? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Very real. Oh, we

Nick: 38:41

might talking about.

Nancy: 38:44

We totally get that.

Bree: 38:46

I mean, like, my mom came to visit from my second daughter's first birthday about couple years ago. Now. Again, we were in a good place, we were fine. Something happened where I had to ask her leave. That's really of our house. And we didn't talk for a good six months after that, until I reached out. And I kind of told her like, we don't see eye to eye on this specific topic. I forgive you. I want you part of our daughter's life's balls in your court, you know, and she kind of reiterated just kind of what I said like I don't agree with you either. But I forgive you. And I'm like, okay, so it's not, it's not like I have this beautiful, perfect relationship with my mom still there now. But I'm at least able to set my firm boundaries with her and have her know her granddaughters too, and

Nancy: 39:47

your granddaughters don't even see her that way. You know what I mean? They seem different

Nick: 39:52

to you not to allow that as well. Right? I mean, but then why would you so you, wouldn't you? Your mom wouldn't have a relationship But those girls, if that's the person your mom portrayed herself to be anyway. And the cool thing is, why would you want to teach your daughters of that person? You wouldn't? That's not the reason why you're doing this. You want to move on with your life as well.

Bree: 40:16

I disagree with that. I think, eventually, when they're, oh, age appropriate. I do want to have that talk with them. Like what I went through with, they're not, because, of course,

Nick: 40:29

I'm saying I'm saying at the time of they, they're not even going to understand what you could tell them anything you want right now about your mom, they're not going to understand that it's not fair for them to even have to even worry or think about that. Or to even give them the inkling of your mom being that way. That would sway their way. They're gonna have to grow up in and find out who their grandma Oh, yeah, by themselves. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With you, your your girls, we didn't tell ours. We didn't tell him about what we I mean, little bit here and there, but he didn't really, I'll be honest with you, he probably learned the depth of what we went through in this podcast. And he's 33 years old. Yeah. Like, he knew, right. But I don't know, to the depth of the feelings and what that what that did to us. And you know, what that did to me or what that did to her. And as far as you know, he knows, you know, when he was raised, he wasn't raised with his grandparents. Right? That was it because of us. We had said to our parents, look, if you want to be in our son's life, you have to make an effort as well. Just

Nancy: 41:44

like you said, You know what I mean? Like, the balls in your court. Now, mom, dad, you guys have to,

Nick: 41:49

they decided his grandparents decided not to be grandparents. So it's a little bit of a different story on that. But that's why we chose to be the grandparents that lived a block away. We chose to insert ourselves like nut jobs into their lives. Because Because we that's what we thought breaking that cycle was. Yeah, right. So that so that our granddaughters wouldn't be without grandparents were, you know, that's just not normal. Right? Like, it's not like, I don't care what anybody says, if, if your kids don't know, their grandparents, that's part of life. Like, there's a different story there. There's a different type of learning their grandparents have something to to say also, without, like, they're the ones that are cool, right? You know what I mean? If the parents are jealous, it's only but they're the ones that are cool, like, grandma and grandpa get to do stupid shit that mom and dad can't do. And so they should be allowed to do that. I'm sorry, I'm getting off on a little soapbox here. Just a little bit. They have just like, but but it is cool. I just find it awesome that we even had another guest on here. Kelsey, who was the same way with her mom, right? Yeah, no, her mom, still to this day. She hasn't even had that conversation where her mom is she's been able to either ask for forgiveness or whatever. But they still have a working relationship because she realizes that her mom is a better person. This, you know now, and that she can rely on her to have a different relationship and that the mom's not going to do anything stupid to ruin that relationship with their child.

Nancy: 43:43

She's a grandmother. Yeah, just like you said, there's boundaries.

Bree: 43:47

I hate that term to it. Oh, dude. Oh my gosh, I feel like it and they abuse it, you know, like, the process because

Nancy: 44:01

I know I was trying to figure out what the word is. But I didn't want to say no,

Unknown: 44:05

no, I

Nick: 44:07

should just trigger something.

Bree: 44:11

Yeah, and anyone, I mean, friends, family, whoever, like my thing is if you're, you treat both of my girls with love and care, you will be in our lives. If I don't see that. If I see. You know, hurting one of them. You You're done. Like I'm yeah, the opposite. Yeah,

Nick: 44:31

but but whatever happened to that just be That's just human. Human. Yeah. See, to me there shouldn't even have to be a spoken word about that. If you're if you're not in my life, that's it. Like that's how life was right. If you're a kind person when nobody really now everything has a label. Right? And again, we're not going to even get into this because everything has a label, but it's so true. I mean, it makes sense, right? That's just, who wouldn't want someone to their life that is going to enrich their lives or the lives of their children or your relationship with anybody. Yeah, I mean that's and be kind to people love people be kind treat so no label

Bree: 45:16

that's another I just passivity or passivity, passive, passive

Nick: 45:25

passivity.

Unknown: 45:26

Isn't that a word?

Nick: 45:28

I guess it would be. I guess we'll have to look up in the dictionary. Nancy is passivity a word. For those people out there, Otani will make it a word for like a Scrabble. No, this

Bree: 45:39

podcast will make you go. Yeah, that. I think that's another thing too, that I have realized. Like, there's been upside with individuals like that you're trying to forgive? Or, you know, like through the whole forgiveness process, just being upfront, being upfront about your intentions, your emotions, like none of this passive aggressive. I can't do that anymore. You know, and I saw my younger self like kind of brushing it like you were saying yes to like brushing it under the rug like, yeah, all I don't want to just like let's move forward. And now I'm like, oh, like, I need to talk about it. If we're gonna have a fucking authentic relationship, right? Yeah. I want to talk about it. Right. But

Nick: 46:25

you know what your life and your if we go by feelings, emote, whatever that is right. All that. You're, you're worth way too much to not choose who gets to be in your fucking life.

Nancy: 46:35

We're working too hard.

Nick: 46:38

Yeah, and we put too much energy into ourselves, to not have the right to choose who's in our lives, period. And that's what people do. I mean, our son, you know, our daughter, that's what they're choosing whether whether it's against us or not, or whether we feel it's against us or not. Everybody has that, right? Like, if you feel you want to put your energy into something else, do it. And by the way, passivity is a Word. Word as a noun, you know, maybe we'll do a word of the day. passivity is the acceptance of what happens without action response or resistance.

Nancy: 47:21

So you're right.

Nick: 47:23

Look at you see what that fucking education does? Well, I just want to say, I mean, we could go on and on and on and have a five hour conversation. I love talking with you guys. And next time, we'll have to get your husband on and we'll have to talk together. But I think it's awesome. And I really appreciate you coming on. But so give us a closing thing like for forgiveness. You know, what, what do you think? We talked a lot about here, right? We talked about getting your mind straight. We talked about that kind of stuff. But for you? What was the biggest thing do you think that allows you to find strength to forgive your mom?

Bree: 48:04

Just having patience with myself. As seen earlier, I thought forgiveness was just like a snap of the finger thing. And it's not. I mean, it's with anyone, not even just my mom, like it's a process. And I'm just learning to be patient with myself protecting my peace at the same time protecting my family space. Yeah. And if anyone is going through that right now in the middle of kind of forgive someone or maybe humbling yourself and being forgiven for something, think yourself because that's. Yeah, that's awesome. That's

Nick: 48:47

awesome. So yeah, so forgiveness. And one thing I just even heard through that or even just talking right now is that this past hours that forgiveness is, it's not a one and done by any means. Because forgive if you have to forgive someone for something, then something actually happened or something perceived happened to you. And it's definitely not a one and done. I think it's a continuation of just life in general, like rage. I think forgiveness is like any, it's like a daily thing to continue, even if it's forgiving yourself.

Bree: 49:21

Yeah, exactly. And I'm not a cricket guru by any means. Like I there's, I'm still learning. I mean, that's just what has worked for me. It's, you know, one being patient with myself, and then protecting my family's peace. And also just realizing it's not a one and done thing.

Nick: 49:40

Yeah. And I think that's a big thing, not just to really, really and we'll end with this too, is just to give yourself a break. Yeah, right. I mean, just give yourself a break. Give yourself some peace. I've been like pat yourself on the back like, Good fucking job. You know that like there's a lot of Get out there. We don't even realize you know what we actually go through on a daily basis and then to have to deal with worrying about shit like that. It's just like

Bree: 50:10

take it easy.

Nancy: 50:11

Yep acts to cool on that note. Thank you