Estrangement From Unbearable Pain to Understanding & Forgiveness

In this raw and authentic episode, Nancy and I have an honest conversation during an evening walk about the pain of feeling estranged from our son and granddaughters. We open up about the lessons we’ve learned through this difficult experience, like living more in the present moment, realizing we were good parents because we raised a strong leader, and finding the positives that came from the negative. Even when family relationships get complicated, focusing on personal growth can help you move forward.

Timeline Summary:

[00:20] Taking an evening walk to have an authentic, deep talk.

[01:14] Recalling the quality time spent with our granddaughters before the rift.

[02:25] The pain of estrangement comes in many forms.

[03:01] Our situation is different, but pain is pain.

[04:53] Cherishing every moment now in case it’s the last time we see them.

[06:06] Being present in each moment is a big lesson learned.

[07:43] Having more meaningful conversations by being authentic.

[09:45] We’re focused on being truthful now.

[10:31] Living in the moment encompasses it all.

[10:47] Realizing we were good parents despite our flaws.

[11:33] Our son had to make some tough decisions.

[13:09] As parents you want your kids to tell you anything.

[13:36] He told us off and that takes balls.

[14:48] Our son is finding himself.

[15:59] This gave us momentum to move our lives forward.

[16:33] Forgiveness comes in all kinds of forms.

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Transcript

Nick: 0:07

It's time to get fucking authentic so we are on a walk tonight and she's looking at me like did you really just start the fucking like? I just said, I just

Nancy: 0:20

wait until the stop sign here

Nick: 0:22

I start the fucking oh man, you

Nancy: 0:24

gotta love it.

Nick: 0:25

We decided to walk take you on a walk with us in nature is where we have some of the deepest conversations as the planes are flying ahead ahead ahead on top of us. We really go back all the time, don't we? Because it's always on our mind. Right? Our family is always on our mind. Yes, I don't think that the let's just say a strange man. We're going to, we're going to talk about that in a second about the word estrangement. But I don't think that that ever leaves our minds of being able to see our kids, our granddaughters, as much as we'd like to. We're used to seeing them. It was 1520 hours a week, let's say. Right? Well,

Nancy: 1:14

we were able to babysit, we were able to I mean, though, yeah, we slept

Nick: 1:17

we shared in a lot with them. Yes, everything pretty much, basically. And now it's down to say, you know, four or five hours every two weeks to a month. And it's still tough. It's not any easier. Just because time goes by time does heal things. But it's still hard. Yes, it is, you know, so we wanted to bring you along with some of the conversations we have, and some of the lessons that we have learned that are actually positive from this. Because believe me, there is some positive from it. Nancy had talked about one thing that was sort of on her mind, where we wanted to talk a little bit about a stranger. And we realized that a strange man has different meanings to different people. Yes, we in the beginning, I obviously thought that all was lost. Obviously, when your son tells you that it'd be easier if we were dead. I think we've talked that we don't, we don't think that he necessarily meant he wanted us dead. Just the fact that it would be easier if we were dead, which it probably would be because well, in a sense of

Nancy: 2:25

exactly. You don't have to see the person you don't have to. You don't have

Nick: 2:29

to worry about dealing with that person. If I really don't want to see them to

Nancy: 2:33

become making an appointment. You know, we can see our grandchildren.

Nick: 2:37

Yes, yeah. But at that time, obviously, there's a lot of emotions going through our mind. Right? A lot of feelings a lot of fucking hurt.

Nancy: 2:45

Yeah, some people get totally separated from whatever the individual is, and never get to see them. Use rangement Yes, for years, or whatever the case is, ours is a little different. Or a lot different, I guess, you know, then well, ours

Nick: 3:01

is different in the sense that we still are able to spend time with our granddaughters and our family. Right? But the only minus our daughter, but,

Nancy: 3:14

but the pain and what we went through Pain is pain. Pain is pain, no matter how

Nick: 3:23

goo, it's how you're experiencing it. So pain is that moment, the definition of pain is the same. We could feel estranged from our family, seeing them for hours a week and call that estrangement. And that can be as painful for us as it is, as opposed to someone who doesn't get to see their grandkids at all. And don't even know where their kids are right? Or granddaughters or grandkids. And so although I say that, well, I wonder if that would cause me more pain than how it is now. It's not necessarily true. Because now we get to see our granddaughters every four weeks. Every one ever Yeah. And it's Well, every four weeks, four hours every four weeks or every two weeks now. And yet, when they leave, I miss them. fucking terrible. It's like a roller coaster. It's like, it's like that wound is constantly being open today. And so how do you deal with that pain? So again, estrangement comes in various forms. Sometimes people say well, with the grieving process, I wish. Maybe that's why our son said, it'd be easier if we were dead. Yes, it's almost like if you didn't see him at all, would that pain go away quicker? Or would you suppress it? You know, quicker, right? I don't want to know what it is. But I'm not trying to do that either. Right. I mean, I think one thing that it's taught us getting right into that is that we talk about moments in the fucking moments that I spend with my family now, I think is quite special for me. Anyway, I agree. I pay way more attention to the camera. sation into what's being said, and to the mannerisms and to the way that we interact, right. And I love it. And every minute that I spend with them is special. And I appreciate that.

Nancy: 5:13

I totally agree with what you're saying, I take it a step further. Because I feel like and I know, it's just me, because you know how I am a member, just leave me here.

Unknown: 5:24

Just go just leave and die here. But I always roll. Yeah. You know,

Nancy: 5:30

what is this the last day that I'm going to see? My family? Right? You know what I mean? Like, it's something going to change, whether it be you know, something happens to one of them, or they decide to change your mind now, and you know, what, I don't know, heard something from somebody or whatever the case is, and all of a sudden, was who our granddaughter who was our son, and grant, you know, you know, so I think for me, that's why I, I do cherish those moments I do, you know, indulge in it? Right time,

Nick: 6:06

right? Well, and I think again, that's one of the lessons we've learned. And that's not just with, this extends beyond our family, it truly does. Yes, being in the moment is one of the lessons and that's with ourselves, that's with just everything we do. Now, we have the thing that that is up on our wall that's been there for over a year now. And you're like, Oh my God, I don't want to think about that. Because it sounds morbid, blah, blah, blah, which is, some of you may know it, some of you don't as memento mori, which is, we all have about a lifespan of about 80 years. And this is a countdown calendar for 80 years, every week, you mark off a box. So every year, it's 52 weeks, and the line goes down till you're 80 years old. And that the idea is that every week, you fill in that box, and it shows you that time is passing, and that you should be thankful. And you should live for every moment. Because life just keeps going. And it just keeps passing you by. And the idea is that you live for the moment, and that you cherish everything for the moment, because we never know when we're going to die. We never know when the last time and for most people that does sound morbid. Oh my god, you're counting down your death, but you're actually not. What you're doing is you're counting down your life. And you're counting down every moment that you're taking. And I think that that's awesome. That again, is about the moment. That's the lesson that we learned about living in the moment.

Nancy: 7:42

And it is true. I mean, I do feel even when I have a conversation with anybody, I mean, even a total stranger, I do feel that I give or listen undivided. You know what I mean, by the detention? Oh, totally. Like, I just like, it's such a difference. You know what I mean? So that is one huge thing that we will I have taken away from this?

Nick: 8:06

Well, I remember you used to tell me even when we were with the girls, when before this had happened. And we would be babysitting or whatever, and I'd be on my phone or. And you'd be like, Man, you need to be in the moment more need to pay attention more to what's going on. And it's almost like you take for granted, the times that you do have. And you take for granted those little things, the little things that matter, the little conversations, the little nuances of seeing them and then their little attitude or, or you or whatever, right. And those are the things that we miss, just by not being in the moment. And those are the little things that actually do matter the most definitely. So I think that's one of the biggest lessons that we have learned. And I think we pay attention more to each other because of that as well. Oh, yeah. And our conversations are meaningful. Well, meaning less, yeah, it's

Nancy: 9:03

not even conversations, but it'll be like, I think we notice even you're doing something and you'll see my face, you know that I just gave a look or whatever. Okay, what was that all about? Or what's what's going on with that? You know, and how many times do you do that to anyone? Right? You know, when it's like, instead of having that conversation with that person, well look, the way you did this just kind of Sure, pissed me off, or just put me in this mood or whatever the case is. And I think that is a huge thing that it's done for us. Yeah. Yeah. To get back to just being truthful. Yeah. to just say, what's on your mind and not

Nick: 9:45

what's authentic, right. The whole thing about what we're talking about,

Unknown: 9:48

I mean, that was about this

Nick: 9:49

podcast

Nancy: 9:50

part of this whole thing how this all began. It's like, it was all fake. You know what I mean? It was like, there was no substance, substance you couldn't tell See what was wrong or what you seen or whatever. And so you chose to do it one way or whatever the case is. I think that happens in life period. You know what I mean? I'm tired, I'm this or whatever, right? And you just don't want to talk about it and you shut down or you, you know, yeah, give the face or the look

Nick: 10:19

tired, or you just don't feel that your words mean anything anymore. Your value is diminished or whatever. Yeah, no, I get it. I. So I

Nancy: 10:27

think that's, that's a huge it all encompasses in the moment?

Nick: 10:31

Well, there's so many strings attached to that, really, we really, you know, at some point, will probably wind up going through all that shit. Maybe when we write a book, you know, I don't know.

Nancy: 10:41

Because I'm such a writer. Well, yeah.

Nick: 10:45

I think another thing that we've learned is, we never realized that going through or going through, it really brings up the definition or the actual, what this has done for me. And I know we've had a conversation, and I think it's done for you as well, is it's made us realize one thing, and that we really were, and really are good parents. Right. And what I mean by that is that we never realize, as parents the effect that you have on your kids both good and bad. Definitely. And I think that although there may have been some less than desirable traits that our son wants to overcome, that he might have learned from us. I think I

Nancy: 11:38

do think that's one of the things we we didn't

Unknown: 11:41

realize,

Nick: 11:42

but that's us being us. Yes. But one thing I do realize is that there are a lot of things that he is stuck, being like us, whether he likes it or not, you know, through word and through example, there was a few things that we taught our son that we didn't even realize, one of them was be a leader. I remember I used to talk to your stomach when he you were pregnant, I would tell you about be a leader. Don't let anybody take advantage. You don't let anybody walk all over you. You set the standard, right? You do that. And it's funny. Because sometimes when you are a leader, and sometimes when you're the trendsetter, or the person who's moving forward, or trying to actually reinvent themselves, or make themselves better, you have to make some tough fucking decisions. And that's with any, let's say, CEO of any company or whatever, you have to make tough decisions for the people around you. Yeah, I'll tell you. One thing that I've learned in particular, and I know we've talked about this, that we've learned as well is that he made a decision to fucking tell us the fuck off. Yeah. And, dude, if you think about it, that's a tough fucking decision. He said it he said in the conversation that I remember specifically, that I can't believe that I'm actually telling you guys this. Yeah.

Nancy: 13:09

And in my, you know, my mind, I'm like, What do you mean, your parents, you can tell us anything.

Nick: 13:15

But the bottom line is, what he meant specifically, was, I'm telling my parents, the people who I love the people who raised me to be who I am. I'm telling them basically that I wish it'd be easier if you guys were dead. Almost like, fuck you.

Nancy: 13:33

Right? I'm gonna do what I got to do.

Nick: 13:36

It takes some fucking balls. Yeah, sure. If we, if, if we think that our son is some pushover or can handle his shit, or can handle his life, that shame on us, because the bottom line is he is a fucking man. The bottom line is, he told us to fuck off. And that's first of all, they became personal in the beginning. But Who the fuck are you? First of all, these are some who the fuck are you to tell me that? Number one. Number two. Wow, who the fuck are you that? You got some balls? Boy? Well,

Nancy: 14:09

maybe you took it that way again. Today, he could have said this a long time ago.

Nick: 14:16

Right? And I think but I think that he may come to that conclusion. He may say, Man, I could have told you that a long time ago. We didn't have to go through any of this. Right? But again, he said that I again, go back to everybody, this this is the human element of it all, whether it's our son or not. Whether it's caused us pain or not, whether we miss our family or not, whether we'd love to see our granddaughters every fucking day or not. We're all human. And we're going to take it the way we take it. He also like I've said before, and like a few of our friends have told us this kid is doing what he's got to do. As a matter of fact, one of the podcasts depending on when this one actually plays that I I had a conversation and the conversation was, your son is trying to find himself. He needs to do this on his own, to find himself to find out what kind of man he is, without us being there and without us without him having to rely on us, right. And so, you know, the second lesson would be is, man, be careful, because if you raise your kids to be independent thinkers and to think for themselves and to stick up for themselves, someday, they may tell you to fuck off. Like bite you in the ass and I again, but no go back to its business in the ass. But man, that chunk that he fucking bit out of my ass has made me realize a lot of things. And like we've said, it has given us the momentum to move forward with our own lives as well. Right with a lot of things,

Nancy: 16:00

no, definitely was doing a lot more. So many avenues. Were going in so many

Nick: 16:06

different stories, a lot of other things to do

Nancy: 16:08

that we probably wouldn't have done, you know, we became complacent,

Nick: 16:12

being fucking authentic and taking off our mask. We've allowed ourselves we did allow ourselves to be caught up in the everyday life and to become robots, and to have the masks. So we have a good walk. Hope you guys sort of enjoyed this. It's a few things we wanted to share with you about some lessons we've learned. And one of the biggest things is that after feeling that, that this was a personal thing. You know, Forgiveness comes in all kinds of forms. And I don't think this is something that will necessarily forget. Because every day I think about them. But because I feel that I was hurt. We feel still that's that this was unnecessary. And right now that's the way we feel it right. It's just this could change. So in this moment, I still say that

Nancy: 17:09

changed. You know what I mean? I think that's the biggest thing.

Nick: 17:13

Forgiveness is huge. And if there is forgiveness to be made here, then we do forgive our son for I say that, it will be easier if we were dead or for being such a spoiled fucking punk. Got whatever the fuck he wants. Again, in the bottom line is, don't let the ship fester. See the good and see the possibilities? Through the pain and keep going. Yeah, right. I mean,

Nancy: 17:45

you have to forget. But you can forgive?

Nick: 17:49

Well, and you have to see what good it's doing. It's opening up, open your eyes, open your heart, open your mind, to the possibilities of what some of the most painful things that we experience, create the best fucking outcomes, ya know? And that, I don't know what more to say about that. We're living it right now. And I know that we're doing better and every time we see our granddaughters, it's fucking awesome. Yeah. And every time we see our son, it's becoming a beautiful thing. And it is what it is. And I think that we need to do that. So we just wanted to share this with you guys. We hope it can just strike up a conversation and maybe talk about it. Or if you're feeling lonely, or you know, feeling pain of strange men or in any kind of relationship. I wasn't saying any kids, maybe you're estranged from your parents, maybe your parents are treating you like whatever the case is. We just hope that this helps out. Do us a favor though. Don't forget to subscribe and like the podcast if this is helping you guys out at all or you just love what you're hearing, write a review. It really gives us the opportunity to be able to continue sharing this with everybody and to keep pushing out the episodes as much as we can. So if you guys would do that for us, and we'd appreciate it. Talk to you soon. Talk to you soon.