From Rejected to Revived: Kelsey's Unbelievable Journey of Redemption

Alright, today we've got a unique guest with me. It's not Nancy, my usual 'sidekick'; it's Kelsey, my massage therapist. We've been talking a lot over the past year, and I've come to realize that Kelsey has quite the story to share. So, here we are.

Kelsey's story begins with rejection, a feeling many of us can relate to in some form or another. She opens up about her early life, where rejection was a constant theme, even within her own family. Her sister's bullying and her mom's inability to connect left her feeling alone and disconnected.

But here's where it gets interesting. During her teenage years, Kelsey stumbled upon a lifeline: writing. She had a moment when she considered self-harm but chose to write instead. Writing became her escape, her way to disconnect from the negativity surrounding her.

What's remarkable is how Kelsey's ability to observe people and understand their true selves started to evolve. She began to see the facades her family members put on and realized how little they knew about her.

We dive deep into the themes of vulnerability, self-discovery, and resilience in this episode. Kelsey's journey is a testament to the inner strength that can emerge from facing rejection and adversity head-on.

We also discuss the vital importance of mental health awareness and the power of sharing one's story. Kelsey's journey is a reminder that even in our darkest moments, we can find potential for growth and resilience.

Timeline Summary:
[00:05] Rejection and disconnection from church and family.
[02:55] Rejection, bullying, and personal growth. 
[08:45] Mental health, writing as therapy, and generational differences. 
[13:17] Family dynamics and unresolved conflicts. 
[20:06] Family dynamics and control. 
[28:12] Family dynamics and personal growth. 
[36:15] Parenting, trauma, and healing. 

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Transcript

Nick: 0:05

We unintentionally gave up. Over time we let ourselves down. We didn't teach or respect the struggle. Our value disappeared over time replaced with masks disguised as truth. I mean, our words became empty and our presence became obsolete. Now we face our biggest struggle, and it's time to rip the masks off. More than ever, it's time to return to our true selves, our real identity, it's time to be fucking authentic. Okay, guess what, for everybody out there who knows that usually my sidekick is with me, which is Nancy. I have a different sidekick with me today. Kelsey, what's going on?

Unknown: 0:56

Not much. How are you doing?

Nick: 0:58

I'm doing good. So Kelsey is my massage therapist. And that's where I'm at today. We've been doing this now for a little over a year. So I thought, wow, you know what? We've been talking all that time. You got a bit of a story? Oh, yeah. Sure. Let's tell it. So that's what we're doing.

Unknown: 1:15

All right. Let's get to it. Let's

Nick: 1:16

get to it. So we talked about rejection, right. And then we also talked a little bit about the disconnect from church, not just from church. But even as you're growing older. Now. You met Andy, and you had your oldest and he's sort of off in the military. You feel trapped at that point.

Unknown: 1:39

At that point in time? Oh, definitely. I hadn't like nowhere to go. Because our original plan mine and Andy's original plan. When we were pregnant with our oldest was he was going to school for nursing. So Oh, really? Yeah. So he was, yeah, he was going to school for nursing. But his best friend always wanted to go into the army. And so he went with him when he went to like the recruitment office and signed up. And I even told them like, Hey, don't fall for it. They're going to try to get recruit you too. And

Nick: 2:15

you just didn't want to Yeah, you're like, you ain't going nowhere.

Unknown: 2:18

No, I was like, don't. I was like, don't fall for it. And like they're getting sprinkled, all these pretty little promises and all these things that they're not going to be able to keep whatever I'm like, Just promise me you won't sign up. And he said, Okay, yeah. And so he went with his friend to support him as he was signing up. And then at the time, I think I was about six months pregnant or so. And he just comes home one day, from school, we're in college. And he goes, Oh, hey, by the way, I signed up for the Army Today. And I was in the middle of like, writing like, Oh, hey, by the way, yeah, literally just like, hey, by the way, our whole

Nick: 2:55

lives are gonna change. Yeah, exactly. I

Unknown: 2:57

literally dropped my pencil. And I looked up at him. And I was like, I'm sorry, run that by me one more time. Oh, I was livid. I was like, Excuse me, after I specifically said, don't get sucked into it, you get sucked into it. And then he ended up having to drop out of the nursing program, because you could only miss two days. It was an accelerated fast paced program. And he was doing really well. But you can only miss two days. And because of military shit, yeah, the signing up and everything. He was going to miss three or four days. And so they said you can't have to drop.

Nick: 3:38

Well, he would have Ultimately though, had to drop it anyway, right? Because of going in or they would have

Unknown: 3:44

I mean, potentially. But the point is, he wasn't supposed to be military.

Nick: 3:50

Don't go change the subject. So the point is, I told him not to fucking do this. And he did it anyway. Yeah.

Unknown: 3:56

Because the plan was good. Yeah. So he did. Yeah. So like, like, yeah, the plan was he did the program. He went to become a nurse, because he could have started working as like a CNA or something. Along those lines. Were right after the program. Yeah. So he could have been making decent money ish while he continued going to school for nursing. And then I was going to move in with him at the duplex. Yeah, his family was in a duplex house. And he they were upstairs. So we were going to be upstairs. Like everyone else was downstairs. And so that that was the plan. And then when he came in and said that he signed up for the military, like our entire plan just got flushed down the toilet.

Nick: 4:42

Well, this is a whole new sort of Revelation. I mean, for me right? Now, I'm just like saying, well, Holy fuck, I mean, you've, I don't know if you realize it, you've been able to go through some changes. No, seriously, right. I mean, if you think about it, you've enabled go through some changes. I mean, of course, this is now after that, let's say 13 years after that fact. Right? And you're still going through those changes. We're sitting here, right? You're pregnant with your fourth. Yep. Andy right now is still you guys are moving into another change, right? That's coming up. Yeah, things are always evolving, right? That's life period. It's not like, Oh, my God, this is some fucking new thing. And life is always changing. But don't you think it's pretty fucking cool that even after growing up and feeling rejection, because we could talk about rejection for a second because rejection is huge. Yeah, let's be real honest about that. I mean, rejection is a terrible feeling. We know Perception is everything. Right? So as a child, your mom could have been like, Oh, it's just a kid, blah, blah, blah. But your feelings were feelings of being rejected. You didn't know that at the time, you just knew that someone wasn't paying attention to you. Now you have, you know, a word context of what that is. But I find it interesting that you felt that way. And here you are today. Still going through everything that you went through with those feelings, because then that that stays with you, right, that season two, which you Oh, my God, this stays with you. It stays with you, throughout your adult life. Obviously, then we talked about as you started to go on, in your early 20s, or whatever, even 19 or 20, you started that really that disconnect, and you started to move towards whatever you want to call it. Enlightenment are really learning about things on your own and really going out and trying to figure stuff out. So what do you think the correlation between the like the rejection, and your search to disconnect? Right? Because if you feel rejected all those years, then you almost feel alone?

Unknown: 7:16

Oh, yeah, most definitely. I did. And I, in my early teens, seventh grade was a really bad year, because I was at a private school. And seventh and eighth grade combined. My sister was in eighth grade, I was in seventh. And so that was really hard, because she was my bully, both in school and at home. So I never got a reprieve. And of course, at school, she was kind of like the leader of everybody of her class. So like it kind of. So that's it. And then it's just like, I was alone completely. For eighth grade, completely alone. Like I had nobody. On my side, you

Nick: 8:01

realize what you just said, like, you just said that your sister was both your bully at home and at school. So on one hand, you're feeling rejected? Yeah. And then on the other hand, the only acknowledgement, or anything that's being paid attention, you is being like bullied. And of

Unknown: 8:22

course, she knows all of my weaknesses and all of my insecurities, which she uses against me in front of everybody else. At school.

Nick: 8:32

Yeah, so hard. So we have a real pretty fucked up dynamic here, right? Oh, you're you feel completely rejected. But yet, the only kind of attention you're getting is being ridiculed and bullied.

Unknown: 8:45

I actually drew this picture in seventh grade, where it's like all black. And then there was a heart in the middle and two hands, breaking the heart in half, like literally cracking it like a cookie, breaking it. It was literally my nonverbal cry for help. Like, obviously, something is wrong. And I show the picture to my mom, and she literally glances at it. It was like during a commercial for between a Lifetime movie she was watching. So not even important. It's a commercial.

Nick: 9:17

Yeah, well, it's a Lifetime movie. That's not important, either.

Unknown: 9:20

I know. But it was a commercial. And so I show her my picture. thinking maybe this is going to trigger her and be like, hey, something's not right. She glances at the pictures goes, Oh, that's nice and goes right back to watching the commercial.

Nick: 9:36

But then I mean, then now as an adult, we know that was probably to be expected, because there was really not that connection there. Oh, correct to begin with,

Unknown: 9:45

but again, as a kid, I'm 13 at the time did you

Nick: 9:48

realize when you drew that picture? Did you know what that meant?

Unknown: 9:53

Oh, for sure. Because right after that, I stood in the hallway with a handful of Tylenol in my hand. I was kind of It took the entire bottle. I literally sat there like my mom, the living room was like right around the corner. My mom was literally sitting like, five feet away from me. And I'm in the hallway and higher bottles, Extra Strength Tylenol in my head, like poured it out all into my hand. And I literally contemplated going walking into the kitchen, getting a glass of water and drinking and taking all of it. Because I was like, I just like hurt, like, I had just had this feeling and this, like, urge to write instead. And so I put them all back. I went upstairs, and I got a blank notebook, and I started writing. So literally writing saved my life. And that's how I started writing. Wow, yeah,

Nick: 10:50

that's pretty fucked up. I mean, it's fucked up a cool at the same time, right? I mean, seriously, right? I know. This is very serious. I mean, but that's, it's fucked up. But it's also life saving, right? It's something that's it's, it's funny that you said that. And I'm not trying to interject myself here. But I can understand. I think when we first met, I told you first about the poetry. Yeah. Because when the estrangement happened with our son, I didn't even know I knew how to write like that. And that's what started to happen. And I came up. And I mean, it just came to me. Yeah, just happened. It was so deep inside, it was weird. It was like your body and your soul knows what you need. If you can just get past that terrible feeling of pain or anxiety, or loneliness, or whatever. That's pretty amazing. That happened like that. Wow. Sir, I don't mean to laugh. But I sit here, across from someone who I'm almost twice as old as I think of today. And I think of all these words, triggered and woke and vulnerable, and trauma and all this shit, I understand it. Right? I understand every generation uses words and things to describe and do whatever. But here, I'm saying right now that it's pretty cool that you're, you know, allowing yourself to be vulnerable, to say something like that, because that takes a lot of courage to say that, because people see that act a lot as an act of weakness. Fuck them. But I'm glad you're able to share that. So with that being said, which brings up even like, now my fucking head is going crazy. And we can probably talk now for like, 10 hours, but so. So you're at the point of feeling that you really don't want to be around anymore. And then, you know, you get into this writing, which is fucking awesome. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. Which is really pretty cool. It's makes a lot of sense, right? Because if you begin writing, then you begin writing what's in your head, which then really begins to disconnect, and almost puts you into a different world than

Unknown: 13:17

Oh, for sure. Like, that's definitely around the time when I was really disconnecting from my family. Because I even felt alone, when we had like family dinners and stuff. So like it would be every Thursday night. Like my grandma, my brother, my sister in law would all come over for dinner and dessert. And I just remember always, I was always sitting there quietly, like, I never really talked, or if I did, it was just like, I just would slide it in, and it was quiet. Nobody heard it, maybe my sister in law did. But she was just like, Oh my God, you're hilarious. In true Kelsey fashion, she would say things like that. But I didn't really have a connection with anybody in my family, because that's when I started to realize how they were how each person was, like, how they were truly and how and what they portrayed, and what they believed about themselves. And so I was just like, Man, this is kind of a bunch of bullshit.

Nick: 14:20

So you started to see that early on, you sort of had that ability to sort of see that early on. Yep. And I mean, was that each person because of a negative way they treated you or just it was just you at a certain level, just looking at everything as a whole

Unknown: 14:41

kind of both? Yeah. Started with the how I was always kind of overlooked. And how I was never really paid attention to everyone always talked over me. I would, I would try to say something. And immediately somebody else would jump in and like steal my thunder and talk over me and so I'm just like, wow, no one really even And no one in my family even cares what I have to say or wants to hear me. And so then after that, I was just like, learn to be quiet, say my thoughts in my head and not really interact or say anything with anybody. And then that's when I started being like, just watching and observing how they were sure you became an observer, right? So then that's how it started with me and just be like, Man, they don't care about me at all. And then kind of just seeing how they were really as people.

Nick: 15:30

Do. This is just so fucking cool to me, because I know how you are now. Right? I didn't know you then. But I know how you are now. And I know that you're a very caring person. And I know that you realize that each individual person, if you've been reading people from since then, you then have to be reading people all the time. Right? Yeah. Because that's just who you are. Yeah. But no matter what, this is just blows me away, right? Because this now comes to sort of like my other question. And what I really want to talk about is like, even though you can read people, and these people have rejected you, and you felt lonely, and you got that out in your writing, and that was awesome that you had an avenue and a way to express yourself through your writing.

Unknown: 16:22

You still

Nick: 16:25

continued relationships with these people. And that's what blows me away too. Because

Unknown: 16:32

at 13 I had no, well, no,

Nick: 16:35

we're saying we know what, 13 that's when it started. But I mean, you're 30 now? Well, yeah, it's true. Now. I'm sorry. I didn't know. I shouldn't say you're totally fine. Yeah, I know. I know how you. Okay. But what I'm saying is, I know that it's 12 years later, or 13 years later. Well, I'm saying since 13. So it's 17 years later. Yeah. But we've had some conversations, right. So it's not like you have the best. And I'm air quotations here. Right. Yeah. relationship with your mom. Correct. We just know it can be tumultuous at times. Has any of this ever been like, settled? Oh, no.

Unknown: 17:20

I've tried several times over the years. I know we've talked about I don't know if we've discussed on the last one. But how? I always have to have witnesses. Yeah. Talked about it. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Some of those. We've touched on how it felt when she was helping out with Cora, my oldest when she was a baby and infant. And I literally had nowhere else to go. I had to stay at my parents house. Because Andy kind of fucked us up in that way. Yeah. There's still some trauma there. But yeah, so we all sat down all four of us, my husband, me, my dad and my mom. Yeah. And we kind of tried talking about how she was constantly overstepping, and wasn't helping us learn. She was just trying, she was just doing things for us instead, like, I if I got something wrong, immediately, she would like push me aside, be like, No, I got it. I got it. Like she would do it instead with the baby. And so I started to feel like when I was a terrible mother, and that she felt she could raise her better than me that she was trying to take her like away from me, like all of those feelings. And so we tried talking about it, and trying to tell her like, Hey, this is how we were feeling that, you know, we've been trying to kind of find our places, parents and what works for us. But then you constantly overstep and interject and just take over. Yeah. And she immediately got defensive about it. And he was like, You need my help, didn't you? Didn't you? When, when he was gone, he wasn't here and like, fall all back on, like the fact that he was gone. And he wasn't here for the first eight months. And I'm like, Well, yes, I needed help. But I needed help learning. I didn't need you to take over. Because I was actually the baby of the family. So I had no experience with bait with infants at all, of course, because you were young at the end. Yeah. So we were 19 when she was when our oldest was born. So it literally no experience he had experienced because he has younger brothers, who he kind of had to help raise which was another reason why I was kind of pod left me. But you know, I'm sure he has his own trauma around that. That whole conversation just did not go over very well. Because of course she got defensive and turned it around. So she's the victim and put all the blame on like Andy or me. And all this stuff worked. Yeah, deflect. Yes. And so then it just kind of ends up getting swept under the rug. And whoever the argument is but they ended up having to apologize to my mom for hurting her feelings when the conversation started. Yeah, how your feelings were hurt

Nick: 20:06

that that victim mentality. So it really goes, it really makes sense, though. Now if you think about it, because I'm just listening, right? And if she must have been, well, she was the same way then throughout your whole life. Yeah. Because if you were rejected, that means that she sort of had to be the center of attention all the time. Right. And so it just stands to reason, right? To me anyway, I don't know, I'm not a therapist. I'm just thinking in my head like that. So it makes sense. So man, so we have all this going on. Still, at the core of this. You allow Your mom to be part of your life and your child's your your girls lives, and you allow your daughters to be part of your mom's life. And that, to me, goes to show the person that you are right now, that doesn't mean that's necessarily a good thing. I mean, in terms of your sanity, you need to think about yourself as well. But I think what it does, this goes to the whole human aspect of things. You realize there should be no guilt on your part. 100 Fucking percent we know that. You know that. Right? Okay. No, I'm just saying like, I'm just I mean that seriously. Right? Yeah, that shows just to the character that you have, you realize that the problems that you have are with your mother, not necessarily with your daughters with your mother, right? And of course, you're going to be the mom, and you're going to protect them. And if you see that anything is out of fucking bounds. Yep.

Unknown: 21:55

I have put my foot down on many occasions. Yeah, I got into into little arguments with my dad, my mom, my sister, over there bounce over my kids boundaries. You know, an hour you set? Yes, that,

Nick: 22:08

which is totally fair. Yeah. Obviously, you feel at this point, let's just say that's adequate enough. Do you think it was ever a control issue? And I know, we say boundaries, that's another one of those sort of millennial words, do you feel good enough that this has put you in control of the situation where as a child, you're not in control, and you're rejected, and whatever, now, you sort of have that control,

Unknown: 22:34

you don't kind of get to pick and choose when she comes around, when she's around. Part of the reason why the relationship has stayed, was because I was working. But we couldn't afford childcare, both of us were working, me and Andy were both working. But we couldn't afford childcare, because childcare is hella expensive. And my mom would watch them for free. So it kind of progressed to Well, I need you for free childcare. And so that's kind of how she stayed in. And then I didn't stop working, we didn't manage to be able to like, have me stop working. Until COVID COVID hit, I stopped working, Andy was still considered a mandatory whatever. So he was still able to work, which was nice. Plus, you know, he kind of hit it very well with the stock market. So she made some good choices there. So we were able to have me stop going to work. And it also it was really nice, having to quarantine and stay away from me. I'm not gonna lie. That was kind of great. And it kind of also made me realize that I was like, maybe I don't need you as much as I thought I did. And so now that I'm only working occasionally in like, out of the house, I mostly work either when they're in school, or they're already in bed, so I don't really read her. So I try to be as careful as I can about appointments that I select, to try and make sure that I don't need her as much. Because I do find that if it's been a week or two weeks without seeing her, then I can handle her better. When I see her. Yeah, just because she does and her mannerisms and the way she speaks and the way things because she thinks she's a good person. She thinks she's great. Sure. And I'm like, but like you don't know who you really are. Like and so like sometimes that like is annoying to me. It frustrates me because I'm like, Okay, I can't handle this right now because you like some of the stuff she says I'm just like, Oh my god. So do you feel trapped? Essentially, yeah, in some respects. Definitely. It feels like I can't withdraw from my family completely. Cool.

Nick: 24:55

Okay, so there's Yeah, so there's, oh my god, there's a ton of shit Have Yes. Yeah. And the reason why I say that is because for those who have listened to this podcast, especially when this is going to air, they would have heard what happened to our son. Yeah. And it it sounds almost identical. It doesn't really. So you're really helping me. Yeah. Cuz he's, I appreciate you because you're really helping me to learn and understand. And I think the Dine, I think the dynamic might be a little different, but not really. So when I asked the question, and especially when I say about control, and that kind of stuff, I feel that we controlled our son's life. No doubt, we were told we gave him too much. We didn't let them fail. But on the flip side, he said it would be easier if we were dead. And in that kind of stuff, and we didn't understand that at first. And I understand it's because we didn't give him a voice and all these things right now. Again, listening to you feeling rejected, whatever, there is no way my son felt rejected. Because we gave him too much and pay too much attention. And we didn't let them fail. And we didn't give him a voice because we were always making decisions for him. And we were so it's a little different, doesn't know who he is. But he, this is so fucking awesome. Because this is almost like you're interviewing me now. Right? Because this makes a lot of sense. Because you're saying that a buddy of mine called me the other day, and we were talking and he had listened to a few of the podcasts a guy grew up in in the cold. He said, man, he goes, Nick, because he knows about my son. And he said, Nick, I think your son is just trying to be his own man. And I get that. I know, that's important. And it's not just about being a man, here I am sitting with you. You're definitely not a man. And you're saying the same thing. And you're the same age, essentially. And this is part of why Nancy and I are doing what we're doing. And I talk to you about this, about crossing that gap between kids and their parents and trying to really understand and really tell parents, man, look, these are your kids. And these are human beings, and they do have a lot of legitimacy to the way that they're feeling in their emotions. Now, I'll also go back and say that I feel that a lot of those emotions and feelings are feelings that we've put in ourselves. Right, and some of them are real. I'm not saying that we don't have feelings and emotions. But I'm saying that we think of things worse than what they are sometimes. Yeah, definitely. But that doesn't negate Exactly, yep. Yeah. And so when you're saying this, to me, it's really blowing me away. What if your mom was to say to you,

Unknown: 28:12

Kelsey,

Nick: 28:14

I realized that, that I've done some stupid shit. I hate playing the victim. I don't want to do this anymore. I just want to be part of your lives without any kind of sort of animosity or whatever going on. Let's work this out. What is it going to take for you to work this out? What how would you respond to your mom with that?

Unknown: 28:36

I would well, one, I would ask her how she came to that conclusion. I would ask her Have you been? Have you been in therapy? Or how did you come across this revelation? But

Nick: 28:46

does that at the end of the day? Does that really matter?

Unknown: 28:51

I think in order for us to actually work through our stuff, we need a mediator. We need an outsider, we need a Fair party. Because I just know from experience that trying to talk to her about how I'm feeling it always flips around to I'm the villain. She's the victim. And now I have to apologize to her.

Nick: 29:12

But just the fact that she's coming to you and saying, I've heard you I hear that I know before before it's whatever and that that's in the past. But would you do that without any kind of prerequisites? I mean, I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say I shouldn't. I'm getting back to like these words, boundaries and right you would, I know that you've been hurt. And I get that because I know how I was raised. I don't know that because I'm at I've lived another 24 years that I realize certain things where I'm at in my life. So we're all in our own spaces, right. And I get that and I totally respect that. So His answer now could be a totally different way. 20 years. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying. So I get that. So that's not fair for me to even say that, to be honest with you. I'm wondering, because for us, that was the first thing I said, right after our argument had happened. I said, Let's go get some help. Like, whatever it takes, like I. I'm not. I'm a proud man, but I'm not a dumb man. Right? You know what I'm saying? Like you up on it? No. Oh, see? He said completely that? No, he's not ready for that. That wouldn't work. This is his problem. And he has to figure it out.

Unknown: 30:38

Okay. For me, being roughly the same age as your son. That kind of just sounds to me like he has no identity. And he's trying to figure out his identity before he can even work through such problems. Oh, man, again. Yeah. Yeah. So that kind of makes sense. We're in from his point of view, like I he's like, I don't, I didn't have a voice growing up. I don't know who I am. Without you, making choices for me. So to him, You saying let's go get help was probably triggered him saying you're trying to make another choice for me. See what I'm saying? Yeah, no,

Nick: 31:13

I didn't even think of it that way. Trying to control me. Yeah. Like, that's another one of those fucking millennial words. Triggered shit.

Unknown: 31:20

Yeah, that's probably the least that's my take on that. Maybe once he works through some stuff on his own, and kind of comes into his own being and realizes who he is as a person. And he has his own identity, and doesn't mimic you as a person, you know what I mean? Then maybe he would be ready for therapy, because he would know who he is, instead of just trying to

Nick: 31:44

be what you want. Yeah. See, I know who I am.

Unknown: 31:49

My mom came to me and said that let's go get help. Let's work through our problems. I would say, Yeah, let's go. Let's go to therapy. Let's work it out. Because I know who I am as a person.

Nick: 32:01

And I get that and you want to know that she's willing to accept you where you're at. Exactly. And I mean, you know what, it's funny because the conversation with him. He did keep saying you guys raised me right. It wasn't all that bad. It this is just me, this is just me. Some of the things that were said, that doesn't make sense. But you know, obviously beginning to understand more about that. And that's awesome. I love this. I love having conversations with you, because you're pretty deep, and I can really get deep. Yeah, well, because we're being honest. And I'm proud, but I'm not like I said I'm not stupid. Okay, not about me. Done. But thank you, because that's fucking incredible. You would accept it, obviously, your mom and so what do you think would be like one thing? That so we're gonna I'm gonna put you on the spot. What's one thing that you'd love to tell your mom? Just one that you've never said before to her?

Unknown: 33:08

You really?

Nick: 33:10

Right, your face is turning red. It's the color of your hair now. I didn't think I'd ever almost get to see you speechless. Yeah, huh. Okay, um, is there something that's really,

Unknown: 33:24

I think what I would want to say would be, you know, I really want you to see me. And to actually like me, for me. Growing up, I didn't feel like I could truly be who I was becoming. So like, I like now, I didn't discover a lot of this stuff until after Andy and I started dating when I was 17. So I started playing like magic, and wow, and D and like, all these fantasy type things that I absolutely, like, loved. So I started to find my crew, my people in that realm. Whereas when I was younger, I never felt like I could tap into that, you know, I mean, because in school, there was this kid who really was into this anime show called Naruto. And he, I mean, he owned it, like he would come with the headband thing on his head to school, whatever. But everyone was like, Oh my God, he's such a total like he was ridiculed by everyone in the school. And I was just like, and me on the flip side, seeing that I was just like, man, he's so secure in who he is, at this point. Like, he doesn't care. And we're in seventh grade eighth grade.

Nick: 34:45

Especially though kids are just so mean.

Unknown: 34:47

So I'm like, I had mad respect for him. I never would have killed him at all because I was like, no up you like you I'm too afraid at this point in time to be myself and to like what I like And also, there is like this stigma a little bit. And like the air quote nerd community, because even like, Andy's friends would be like, you're too pretty. You're too attractive to like this stuff. You're too like the fuck it really?

Nick: 35:19

So what was that have to do exactly

Unknown: 35:21

what does that have to do with liking to play WoW or me liking to play Magic or all this quote unquote nerdy stuff? I'm just like, that's such bullshit. So then again, it felt like I was being ridiculed and almost like, rejected because you don't look the part. Yeah. And I was just like the Drupal like I'm trying to branch out here. So it was just like I couldn't ever be that I couldn't ever be accepted by like, by my family at all. And even when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do in college and stuff I had originally wanted to go into acting and things like that in high school. And that was completely like No, from my parents, because my dad essentially said that if I was an actress, that I would be a horse that I had to

Nick: 36:15

last fucking stereotypes of everything that I

Unknown: 36:18

would have to sleep around in order to get roles. And I was like, wow, okay. And I'm 14. And like, you're really saying this to a 14 year old. He literally said, I would have to be a horror because I would have to sleep around to get roles. Like there's word for word, but he said, I was like, but then on the flip side, so I was also gaslighted. Because then on the flip side, he would tell me, I have such a great memory. And I should be an actress.

Nick: 36:45

Yeah. So there's, like, yeah, man back, okay.

Unknown: 36:49

So then I was like, Okay, I can't do that. Because then when I was older, I even said, Well, if you're gonna live here and go to college, it has to be something practical. Acting is not practical. You can't go for acting. So I changed it to writing. And they were like, still not practical, but better. I still had to pay for all of my own college education, whereas they paid for half of my sister's cosmetology school,

Nick: 37:18

I will just tell you that on behalf of all motherfuckers, who have kids in their 30s, I apologize for my generation of ignorance. And I think it's funny, because I'm not going to I'll go down this road for a second, I'm not also going to blame them for playing a role to what they were taught you, as a parent are doing the best that you can right now to raise your kids. For what you know. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And I wouldn't doubt that unless there is like really major abuse and whatever going on, and I'm not saying emotional itself is not abuse at all, because it is yes. But I'm saying that there's really outward abuse, you know, what I mean? And most parents that as an excuse for the way that I raised my son, or the way your parents raised you, or I'm saying this coming from a mom, who raised me in a cult, and physically and emotionally abused me. And I can sit here and forgive her for that. Right? Because I realized where I'm at right now, going through what I'm going through with my son, that as a parent, we do honestly, do the best we can with what we know, or what our belief system is, or whatever at the time, correct? Doesn't mean it's right. Right? Yeah. No, the intention is the best intention, right? But the best intention is not always correct. Or right, I should say,

Unknown: 39:11

I get you. And I guess then that kind of leads into back again to why I still am allowing no no relationship on her and my kids is because I realized a long time ago, how she is who she is. And I've kind of come to the realization that she has little very little, if any self awareness. So I'm like, it's never going to change. She'll always be this way because she doesn't want to change she doesn't want to look within she doesn't want to realize how she is and that's okay. Because some of like, there might be some really deep dark shit in there that she's, you know, writing Yeah, so I'm like, I don't blame her have come to that realization. Jen, and I kind of weigh the pros and cons. She is a complete 180 with my kids than she was with me. See? Yeah, so she's really calm. She's patient. She doesn't like really raise her voice. Obviously, she never hits them. It would be completely different. If she did I would be hell no, we're out here by, again, complete 180 from how I was treated, she pays attention to them. She actually gets to know them. She accepts them in a way that she never accepted me. Which is why I still allow it because in a way, her relationship with them is good. Well, it's her relationship with them has nothing to do with me. So it's like, it sucks. It does. Because you're,

Nick: 40:52

yeah, you just said it, right? Like, your mom,

Unknown: 40:55

I do. In that's do. And so I see her doing this for my kids. And I just kind of realized it's never going to be me. Which does suck, but I've kind of come to that conclusion does suck. It does suck. It does. But I have other people now.

Nick: 41:11

So I just want you to know, that's what I was gonna say that.

Unknown: 41:17

Look where you're at? Yeah, yep.

Nick: 41:20

This is why you do what you do, right? This is why you're people's healers. You're their healer. You sit there and you do something for people that is, is healing them in a sense. That's part of you. Not being accepted. And that can be up to you as well. Right? I mean, you have to still take care of yourself. It can't always be you giving

Unknown: 41:51

out? Correct because otherwise, I if I'm not full? You have nothing to give. Yes. But yeah, so that's why self care is important. I think I've mentioned before, too, that the saying in the massage therapy community is that massage therapists become such therapists to heal something broken in themselves while healing others.

Nick: 42:14

Well, I believe that I believe that for massage therapists. I believe that for spiritual healers, I believe that for coaches, I believe that for most, a lot of the psychology and field. This is very therapeutic for me. That's awesome. Like, I'm here, I'm not even a fucking therapist.

Unknown: 42:35

I'm like, I'll keep going.

Nick: 42:35

I'll give you a bill. Next massage on you. Let me ask you, then there's a young woman, a young girl, a mom, anybody out there? A woman who is completely feels rejected? What do you tell them?

Unknown: 43:01

I tell them to find who they are first. Because then once they know who they are, they can find their people. And just like, say the price of water changes on the location where it's at. If you feel worthless, where you're at, might just be in the wrong location. So you might just have to find a different, different people different job different, something different, you just not with the right in the right place. Yeah, is your worth changes depending like water your worth is or decreases depending on where you're at agree with. Sure. And also to know your own worth. Because once you know your own worth, and you accept yourself, then you can start healing the child and you that feels rejected. If you can, like reparent, your inner child and it really accept yourself. And then you can find your people that will accept you. But you have to know who you are first, in order to find the people that will accept you.

Nick: 44:12

And for the young girl teenager who's there who still is under sort of their parent's control or rule who might be sitting there contemplating the same thing you were contemplating. It would be hard for them to be understood. Right still. Yeah. And I know this is difficult right now. I know. It's difficult. This is a very serious issue. But what do you think then? And I know you had an outlet, right? What would you say to them?

Unknown: 44:49

To the early teens or preteens? I mean, I would say to find your outlet if they don't really quite know what it is yet whether it's try different things. Try drawing what you're feeling. Try Writing what you're feeling I hear running is great for clearing the mind. I hate running personally, but any kind of outlet that's healthy, obviously, I would not condone smoking or drinking at that young age bowl at any time to cope, because that's not healthy. Music can be very healing, whether it's therapeutic for sure, yeah, whether you're listening to instrumental metal music, or soft jazz, or whatever it is, find something that has meaning for what you're going through that helps you feel understood and accepted. And then it's makes it that much easier. I feel like when you find something that makes you feel understood,

Nick: 45:46

and I would add to that, and this is just for me, the pain that I've gone through, is that it does, and you just got to go through it, go through it. And keep going.

Unknown: 46:02

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Absolutely. But when you're that young, you can't see the big picture. You're just you're stuck in the hearing now and in drowning in the emotion that you're feeling. Yeah, that's trying to find your life raft.

Nick: 46:21

Yeah, I just yeah, let them know that they just keep going. Yeah, everything is temporary. Yeah, everything's temporary. Yeah. Yes, keep

Unknown: 46:28

trucking. keep trucking. Yeah, find your outlet. Well, dude,

Nick: 46:33

I think we hit a stride and I'm really happy that we were able to talk about these things that matter. And I appreciate your insight. That was awesome. And now I'm going to be sitting on that massage table. And you're gonna be like, hurting me like usual. And I'm gonna be like, but you gave me such good advice. How can you be such a sadistic, insane, crazy woman.

Unknown: 47:02

Everyone has to have an outlet. Yeah, well, you're right. That's the truth.

Nick: 47:08

All right. Well, I do honestly appreciate it. We'll see you soon. Bye.